Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:12 pm Posts: 1463 Location: West Tennessee
The June 2, 2011 deadline for application for membership to NCAA Division II has passed and the number applying is 16. There are 14 NAIA schools applying.
The official press release on schools accepted into the initial phase of membership will come on or after July 11, 2011.
The NCAA said it will limit new members this year to 8, but the committee can add more if they deem it appropriate.
I compiled a list of schools believed to have applied this year to join NCAA Division II (June 1, 2011 Deadline)
American Mideast Daemen College (NAIA) Roberts Wesleyan University (NAIA) Point Park University (NAIA)
Cal Pac Holy Names University (NAIA) accepted to Pacific West D2
Golden State Azusa Pacific University (NAIA) accepted to Pacific West D2 Fresno Pacific University (NAIA) accepted to Pacific West D2 Point Loma Nazarene (NAIA) accepted to Pacific West D2
Sooner Northwestern Oklahoma State University (NAIA) accepted by Great American D2 Rogers State University (NAIA) Southern Nazarene University (NAIA) accepted by Great American D2
Southern States Shorter University (NAIA) accepted by Gulf South D2
TranSouth Trevecca Nazarene University (NAIA) Union University (NAIA) accepted by Gulf South D2
Wolverine Hoosier Athletic Davenport University (NAIA)
Non-NAIA McMurry University (D3) Young Harris College (NJCAA)
The 8 to get in? Holy Names University, Azusa Pacific University, Fresno Pacific University, Point Loma Nazarene, Northwestern Oklahoma State University, Southern Nazarene University, Shorter University, Union University
2012 Application D2 California State University San Marcos (NAIA) Freed-Hardeman University (NAIA) Cumberland University (NAIA) Indiana Wesleyan University (NAIA)
2012 Application D3 Georgetown College (NAIA)
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:42 pm Posts: 10102 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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After reading the NCAA news releases related to the 8 school limit, the softness of that limit, and watching the standards change over the last couple of years my take is a bit different.
* The NCAA is looking for "model programs" * By reading the reports of the consultants to the various schools, you can get an idea of what a model program looks like * The NCAA is limiting accepted applications to 8; that doesn't mean they will accept the top eight. It may mean they only take five. * In the statement where they said that if there are more than eight qualified programs that they will take more, it was meant as a hypothetical. I didn't get the sense that they expected in any way for there to be more than eight model programs.
I'm not that familiar with the schools outside of California in terms of their NCAA qualifications, but I am doubtful of Holy Names, and based on comments I've read here I am also doubtful of Shorter. The other 6 you list seem likely to qualify, although I can think of reasons they may not consider FPU or PLNU model programs. I hadn't seen Trevecca listed as applying anywhere this year, and it seems foolish for them to do so since they could keep their post season qualifications alive by delaying a 2nd attempt by a year. San Marcos is smart to do this, even though no one has any doubt they will end up D2 eventually.
Calm, me and the head of the D-II board have the same 8 plus McMurry, they could be considered "highly qualified" since they are already an NCAA member.
Just to verify what was talked about earlier in other threads:
Fresno Pacific, Azusa Pacific, and Point Loma along with Holy Names from the California Pacific Conference have all accepted invitations to join the Pacific West Conference (NCAA Division II) and are all planning to move to the Conference starting in the fall of 2012. Here are the links to each website article from each school.
These schools still need a pending decision by the NCAA to fully accept them on July 12th though it is expected that all 4 will be accepted.
Tough losses for the NAIA, not only in basketball, but in other sports as well where the GSAC has been successful nationally. This hurts especially in the west where there are not many fully licensed NAIA schools.
I believe the ultimate goal of the Pac West is to get to 16, They'll really push for 2 more GSAC members in the coming years, and would settle for CPC members. I'm thinking they want a set up of the 4 Hawaii/4 Nor Cal in 1 Div. and get 5 So Cal, Dixie St., GCU, FPU in the other. Just a few years ago the PWC only had 5 members.
CCAA will go to 14 when UC Merced and CS San Marcos are ready to make the move.
Azusa Pacific should be a slamdunk and this is a great move for them. Fresno Pacific and Point Loma should also get in and will benefit from this. Holy Names I'm not so sure about, but best wishes to them.
If all 3 members that applied for NCAA D2 get in, then I feel badly for the rest of the GSAC, though Biola and Westmont will enjoy their new domination. And if no one else leaves, I think they can keep it going. Might be a good time to talk to La Sierra University too.
Bronto or anyone that knows the GSAC, are there any other schools that have D-II hopes in the conf. or is that it? I noticed the Senior Reports had Master's on his list of possible D-II moves that didn't get back to him. If worst comes to worst and 2 more leave down the road, what about the GSAC adding La Sierra and merging w/ the CPC which will be down to 6 when UC Merced leaves. Would the D-II CPC be willing to move D-I? I know they are weaker but when there aren't and options in the west other than La Sierra (that have basketball) you gotta get creative.
Bronto or anyone that knows the GSAC, are there any other schools that have D-II hopes in the conf. or is that it? I noticed the Senior Reports had Master's on his list of possible D-II moves that didn't get back to him.
The Master's College to NCAA? I really, REALLY can't picture that.
Given the highly emotional debate this generated in the GSAC, I really don't expect any more schools to make a move, at least for awhile. But if the D2 transition works well for these schools after all, I'd expect Biola and Westmont to feel highly pressured to get out too or in the alternative, to seriously consider NCAA D3 -- Westmont would be perfect for the SCIAC, honestly.
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:42 pm Posts: 10102 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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Anything I say is highly speculative, since I'm just a fan/alumni. Obviously.
That said, I don't think any of the other schools are interested. Westmont administration has come out strongly as pro-NAIA, publishing a paper outlining why they believe the NAIA is the right fit for smallish private Christian colleges. My understanding is that Biola feels the same way. Concordia would be the next candidate, but apparently they aren't interested either. Senior reports listed Masters (and SDCC as well) which is a complete joke; he lost a good amount of credibility with me at that point as they couldn't qualify for D2 even if they wanted to. Money, facilities, staff, etc. I keep hearing the statement that "Westmont would feel pressure" for this or that, but I really don't get it. Pressure from who, and how? Westmont is not an athletics driven school like APU, Fresno, Lindenwood or Simon Fraser. The alumni understands and loves the NAIA and the history. Now, if enough other schools went NCAA that it becomes difficult to fill a schedule, that would be a consideration. But that doesn't seem to be a consideration on the foreseeable horizon.
As for prospective new GSAC members, there are a few. La Sierra is obvious, and they do seem to be upgrading their program. Go to the NCCAA site, you will see a couple of schools with programs in So Cal that might become an option at some point. There is a newish NAIA program in Orange County (Catholic) that I think is going to start basketball at some point. There are also some scattered schools around So Cal that don't have athletics at all, but maybe they would in the future. Yeah, I would think that if it shrunk further, a merger with the Cal Pac would be a possibility. If the GSAC goes to 7 in 2012, we will likely be playing more non conference games up there anyway, and could be a good test to see how the travel works. There's also a school in Arizona.
I agree that if Master's or SDCC tried to go NCAA, it would be totally ridiculous, but I'd also like to give them credit for realizing that, so I too would discount any sources talking crazy like that.
Further, no argument that Westmont especially is less interested in athletics than any of these schools trying to make the switch, which is why I was saying they would go D3 if anything, because that's the NCAA division with no athletic scholarships and where small liberal art colleges still dominate. But I don't see them exploring that option unless their back was to the wall and we're nowhere that far along yet.
Glad you brought up Concordia, because I wondered if they would join Cal Lutheran in going NCAA, although I suppose if they did they are also more likely to go D3 than D2. SCIAC is actually a really nice conference and the fact they just took Chapman back indicates they may be open to more members.
Let's face it, Cal Baptist broke the ice and now where this ends exactly remains to be seen ...
Senior Reports listed Master's as a possible. Everyone has looked at the possibilities of GSAC teams leaving. There were lots of rumors. Senior Reports only listed that they had emailed them. They didn't say they were going, only that they wrote to see if they were.
Cumberland U just upped their membership in the Mid-South to all sports. I'm thinking that they dropped the whole D2 exploration business.
No Way their overall facilities would meet D2 requirements.
Cumberland just announced a major rebuild to their football facility. Have you seen the baseball facility? Has to be top 5 in the NAIA and some NCAA D1 schools would be jealous. CU totally rebuilt the softball complex a year or two ago. CU has a large indoor practice for outdoor sports that not many in the NAIA have. CU's gym is large enough to hold volleyball tournament's, wrestling meets. CU's AD has already transitioned one school from NAIA to NCAA DII. They were the first to talk about it. The reason CU stopped the process was more financial. If you want facility issues look at Trevecca. Trevecca good facilities, but overall CU's facilities are a better fit for DII than Trevecca. Baseball at CU is better. Indoor facilities are about the same except CU's is bigger and seats maybe a little more. Softball is about the same probably. Soccer about the same. Pitch at Trevecca is said to be much better. Neither had great seating. Bethel is a school that is probably going to be a DII fit. Bethel is upgrading all facilities and already have a DII ready football facility. Trevecca keeps losing coaches and they don't have an AD hired either? I read a ways back the AD was leaving and no one has been hired? This week Burton the baseball coach left to go to Lindsey up in Kentucky. I think that is 3 baseball coaches leaving in like 5 years. I think the others went NCAA DI, but they lost Burton to Lindsey? When you are going to go DII?
Last edited by Swoosh on Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:42 pm Posts: 10102 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Twitter: teamvsn
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Swoosh wrote:
Senior Reports listed Master's as a possible. Everyone has looked at the possibilities of GSAC teams leaving. There were lots of rumors. Senior Reports only listed that they had emailed them. They didn't say they were going, only that they wrote to see if they were.
So why not list Vanguard, Biola, Westmont, and Hope as well? I think Senior Reports is a great resource for media links and for other things he actually researches, but that list of possible applicants is completely unfiltered for reality. All one would have to do to get a school on it is to say "Mountain State is going NCAA D2" on a message board and they'd be on the list.
The GSAC conducted a feasibility study to determine the possibilities of moving as a conference. The reason a study was needed was not because everyone wanted to go, but because a few wanted to go and the rest said "show us how this makes sense". Despite the claims of unity and staying together as a group, the clear majority said "no, this doesn't make sense" and the few decided to go anyway.
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:42 pm Posts: 10102 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Twitter: teamvsn
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APU alum wrote:
Further, no argument that Westmont especially is less interested in athletics than any of these schools trying to make the switch, which is why I was saying they would go D3 if anything, because that's the NCAA division with no athletic scholarships and where small liberal art colleges still dominate. But I don't see them exploring that option unless their back was to the wall and we're nowhere that far along yet.
Don't let Dave Odell catch you saying anything like Westmont being "less interested" in athletics. He and President Beebe have a very well thought out philosophy on how athletics integrates into academia. When Beebe was hired one of the first speeches I heard him give was the importance of athletics to a college. Scholarships are a big part of that philosophy, I think because it most closely mirrors the benefits and responsibilities associated with commitments in the real world. As a student, no one cares about your grades but you, and you have to live with the results. But as part of a team, your results affect others; scholarships play a role in clarifying the responsibilities of the receiver. And the NAIA is the only place where a small Christian college can legitimately award scholarships and still compete for national championships alongside non-Christian colleges. I have NEVER heard anyone from Westmont comment favorably on a move to D3; if it ever came to moving to the NCAA, it would be to D2. But that's nowhere in sight at the moment. Any D3 talk I've heard in the past couple of years is from outsiders who have no idea what they're talking about.
I looked at his list. Out of all of those schools, the only ones I have never heard anything about looking at D-II were Carlow, Master's, Concordia, SDCC. However the 3 GSAC were at one time lumped in w/ the GSAC going D-II as a whole. So I wouldn't bust his balls over that. He's following leads. He had some others like AUM who wanted to be D-II a few years ago but have done nothing since.
I think the reason he asked about other GSAC schools is that he knows the PWC would take 2 more and go to 16 splitting into 2 div.
If I were to guess of 2 more CA schools willing to join the PWC in the future, it would be Menlo, Concordia, or Biola. (I know they said no now, but things change).
PWC would rather have 2 So Cal schools because they have 8 on the Hawaii/N.Cal side.
Things can always change. Example: I told him to talk to Colorado Coll. who had an open invite to the RMAC. He got an e-mail saying they declined. Yesterday Colorado Coll. found out that 7 of the 12 members of their far flung conf. will break away and form a new one. Leaving CC with 4 Texas schools. Now they are reconsidering the RMAC. This all happened in less than a month.
The dude is in Ohio, how in tune is he supposed to be with CA schools from the NAIA? NAIA is a religion to you guys, it's a job for him. Conf/Div movement is a religion to me, NAIA to D-II is a hot spot for me so I've learned a lot about the NAIA from you guys.
Bronto, GSAC would go into AZ to get Arizona Christian? West Coast Bible in Lancaster seems like they'd be a good fit. They are the only other school in CA from the NCCAA or USCAA that has basketball. The other 3 in the west region are in Oregon.
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