It is currently Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:51 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:30 am 
Offline
Freshman

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:15 am
Posts: 66
10-0 vote by HAAC presidents to deny admittance to conference.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:37 am 
Offline
Special Teamer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:01 pm
Posts: 151
Location: FLA
Either way I don't care about Belleville, but may I ask where you acquired this information. I'm just curious if there was a press release that I could read?

_________________
"You can't pitch to Johnny! I'm Johnny!"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:46 am 
Offline
Freshman

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:15 am
Posts: 66
No press release that I know of; got the info from an AD.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:09 am 
Offline
Freshman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:19 am
Posts: 7
Location: Nomadic Traveler
Any speculation as to why this would happen? Holding out for MoBap? Or is the HAAC denying entry to newcomers with ideas (rumors) of D2 happenings?

_________________
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; Nothing on Earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." - Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:40 am 
Offline
NAIA Legend

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:48 am
Posts: 8466
Location: Johnson County Snob
CrownTownKid wrote:
Any speculation as to why this would happen? Holding out for MoBap? Or is the HAAC denying entry to newcomers with ideas (rumors) of D2 happenings?




I'm sure the HAAC certainly wants to bring in Missouri Baptist down the road. But any transition to D2 will be up to individual schools. The NCAA already told the HAAC a few years ago that they won't allow whole conferences to move into the NCAA. Secondly, there are a handful of HAAC schools that would get laughed out of the application process by the NCAA due to financial restraints and lack of other resources necessary to move into the NCAA.


I sure would like to learn more about the vote to deny LU-Belleville though. I'm not surprised at all, but I'd be interested to find out what criteria was used to determine the unanimous denial by the school presidents.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:26 pm 
Offline
Special Teamer
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 7:54 am
Posts: 151
predictionking wrote:
I'm not surprised at all

So if true what's our next best option? Mid States? I've heard that conference refered to as the "SEC of NAIA Football" before but that was by a St. Ambrose coach.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:22 pm 
Offline
NAIA Legend

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:48 am
Posts: 8466
Location: Johnson County Snob
I think you guys are screwed. There is a lot of negative stuff out there about the Lindenwood system with relation to pell grant usage and lack of oversight. I called some people in the know in the know about this and Ive heard some damning stuff. I'm hearing Lindenwood was denied because every president in the HAAC believes the leadership within the university was trained, educated, and guided by one of the most morally corrupt college Presidents in the history of Secondary Education.

The HAAC school presidents believe Lindenwood is for profit institution living behind the facade of a non profit institution like Ashford or Park University. The denial actually had nothing to do with
Athletics. It was all about a general disdain for the Lindenwood model created by their former president.

I'm hearing LU- B will struggle to ever find a conference in the NAIA.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:12 pm 
Offline
First Year Starter

Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 394
predictionking wrote:
I think you guys are screwed. There is a lot of negative stuff out there about the Lindenwood system with relation to pell grant usage and lack of oversight. I called some people in the know in the know about this and Ive heard some damning stuff. I'm hearing Lindenwood was denied because every president in the HAAC believes the leadership within the university was trained, educated, and guided by one of the most morally corrupt college Presidents in the history of Secondary Education.

The HAAC school presidents believe Lindenwood is for profit institution living behind the facade of a non profit institution like Ashford or Park University. The denial actually had nothing to do with
Athletics. It was all about a general disdain for the Lindenwood model created by their former president.

I'm hearing LU- B will struggle to ever find a conference in the NAIA.
The rest of the HAAC really is hilarious on that . . . they're so jealous it's just blinding.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:42 pm 
Offline
Special Teamer
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 7:54 am
Posts: 151
predictionking wrote:
I'm hearing Lindenwood was denied because every president in the HAAC believes the leadership within the university was trained, educated, and guided by one of the most morally corrupt college Presidents in the history of Secondary Education. The HAAC school presidents believe Lindenwood is for profit institution living behind the facade of a non profit institution like Ashford or Park University.

WOW! I guess I just didn't realize that all of these Presidents and their respective HACK schools were as pure as the driven snow.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:23 pm 
Offline
First Year Starter

Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 394
LynxOLDad wrote:
WOW! I guess I just didn't realize that all of these Presidents and their respective HACK schools were as pure as the driven snow.

Either LU-B will do some groveling and get in, or they'll go into the AMC and MSFA, I'd think. No question the HAAC Presidents circled the wagon and simply don't want to play with people who found a way to build a school that worked better than "doing it the old fashioned way" (in other words sticking with a strategy that basically hasn't worked for anyone in the league ).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:45 am 
Offline
NAIA Legend

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:48 am
Posts: 8466
Location: Johnson County Snob
northernexplorer wrote:
LynxOLDad wrote:
WOW! I guess I just didn't realize that all of these Presidents and their respective HACK schools were as pure as the driven snow.

Either LU-B will do some groveling and get in, or they'll go into the AMC and MSFA, I'd think. No question the HAAC Presidents circled the wagon and simply don't want to play with people who found a way to build a school that worked better than "doing it the old fashioned way" (in other words sticking with a strategy that basically hasn't worked for anyone in the league ).



Lindenwood has seen an incredible amount of growth and progression over the last 10 to 15 years, but to claim the rest of the HAAC hasn't maintain working strategies is pretty shortsided and ignorant.

Benedictine, Baker, Culver, and Central Methodist have been around since before the Civil War. Peru State has been around since the 1860's.

Missouri Valley and Graceland are more than 120 years old. Avila is nearly a century old.



Do the current HAAC schools really want to pursue the same type of growth as Lindenwood? I don't believe that to be the case. The strategies and missions of the institutions are obviously different.

With that being written, I'd like to know the parameters of the vote. Does Lindenwood-Bville have another chance? Did they fail to give a solid proposal? Was it just a vote? What info did the HAAC presidents have at their disposal when making their choices?
Has Missouri Baptist already sent out some feelers about joining in the future?

What I do know is the vote had NOTHING to do with athletics or travel concerns.


LU-B should be able to get into the MSFA because its a Football only league. Some of the same decisions may not be factored into the selection for a football only league. And getting into the MSFA West with the likes of St. Ambrose wouldn't be a big deal. That division is actually easier than the HAAC.... But the MSFA East division is the real SEC of the NAIA.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:46 am 
Offline
First Year Starter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:12 pm
Posts: 468
Location: Bruce R. Deaton Memorial Field
predictionking wrote:
But the MSFA East division is the real SEC of the NAIA.


FWIW The strength of the East took a little step back, as SXU has been swapped to the West Division and USF (IL) moving to the East, so USF (IN), Marian, and SXU aren't all in the same division this year. SXU is still playing both of those teams in their cross over games, opening the season with Marian.

_________________
Back to Back MSFA Pick 'Em Champ (2012,2013)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:26 am 
Offline
First Year Starter

Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 394
predictionking wrote:
Lindenwood has seen an incredible amount of growth and progression over the last 10 to 15 years, but to claim the rest of the HAAC hasn't maintain working strategies is pretty shortsided and ignorant.

Benedictine, Baker, Culver, and Central Methodist have been around since before the Civil War. Peru State has been around since the 1860's.

Missouri Valley and Graceland are more than 120 years old. Avila is nearly a century old.



Do the current HAAC schools really want to pursue the same type of growth as Lindenwood? I don't believe that to be the case. The strategies and missions of the institutions are obviously different.
sigh...nearly EVERY HAAC schools has, during the last quarter century flirted with bankruptcy. Regardless of "mission" none of these schools is trying to reduce enrollment and go broke, but except for Lindenwood, all of them have struggled recently. It seems like Culver is actually in better shape, but since they have institutional issues with record keeping, it's tough to tell. Graceland is evidently in real trouble, MNU is back from the brink due to one donor, Avila is always about 1 foot from the grave . . . Lindenwood figured out how to become financially stable without graduating kids (or worse, seeing them drop out w/o graduating) $30k+ in debt.

The resistance of the other HAAC schools in really studying what LU was/is doing is flabbergasting. I'm not a particular fan of Lindenwood, but I have heard the HAAC Presidents and AD's and realize the resentment and total denial of reality they brought to the table on this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:44 am 
Offline
NAIA Legend

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:48 am
Posts: 8466
Location: Johnson County Snob
I did some more digging and while it would seem like jealousy, it has more to do with rumor and innuendo which has followed Lindenwood around since the early Spellman days. A few of the HAAC schools led by one big one out in Marshall, MO and a certain Catholic institution in Northeast Kansas felt like Lindenwood-belleville wasn't fully transparent.

It had less to do with the "lindenwood institutional model" and far more to do with a percieved "Rogue" attitude and lack of oversight at Lindenwood-Belleville.

Quite simply, some folks in the HAAC didn't necessarily feel like they could trust the leadership at LU-belleville. The HAAC leaders didn't like the answers to some of their questions. Now I don't know if that meant LU-B wasn't prepared, or if they are being slightly rogue and cavalier with their money, practices, and compliance to NAIA rules.

Now you must ask yourself a few questions:

1. Does the mistrust stem from past biases or jealousy?
2. Did past rumors do them in? Was it current rumors?
3. Did the ghost of Spellman, a man hated by many Missouri Post Secondary academics, still haunt them today?

The HAAC folks didn't feel like Scott Spinner, a man 3 years removed from being the Assistant Basketball Coach at Fontbonne was qualified and prepared to run their athletics department.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:03 pm 
Offline
NAIA MVP
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 937
What surprises me is that it was a 10 - 0 vote. You'd think they would have gotten a couple votes unless something wasn't right.

Personally, I think it was more of a worry that LU-B will become what LU-St. Charles was/is now. Athletically speaking. With all the talk about LU-STC moving to D1 FCS in the future (distant future if it happens), I believe they think LU-B could make the move to DII and leave them looking for another replacement. I'm also sure the Missouri Baptist interest had a bit to do with it as well. They would make more sense for the HAAC IMO.

_________________
GO LIONS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:08 pm 
Offline
First Year Starter

Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 394
predictionking wrote:
I did some more digging and while it would seem like jealousy, it has more to do with rumor and innuendo which has followed Lindenwood around since the early Spellman days.

It had less to do with the "lindenwood institutional model" and far more to do with a percieved "Rogue" attitude and lack of oversight at Lindenwood-Belleville.

I think we're calling the same thing by different names . . . if the HAAC Prezzies feel they can assess another institution's AD as "qualified" or not . . . logic has clearly left the building, whatever you want to call it ("rumor and innuendo" is fine).

The decision was made at a visceral level, then they came up with some reasons (NAIA compliance?? funny). You'd figure the 10-0 vote came AFTER they sorted out the decision. No point to being on record voting FOR LU-B if they're not getting in.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:24 am 
Offline
NAIA Legend

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:48 am
Posts: 8466
Location: Johnson County Snob
LUFan2 wrote:
What surprises me is that it was a 10 - 0 vote. You'd think they would have gotten a couple votes unless something wasn't right.

Personally, I think it was more of a worry that LU-B will become what LU-St. Charles was/is now. Athletically speaking. With all the talk about LU-STC moving to D1 FCS in the future (distant future if it happens), I believe they think LU-B could make the move to DII and leave them looking for another replacement. I'm also sure the Missouri Baptist interest had a bit to do with it as well. They would make more sense for the HAAC IMO.



No, that really had nothing to do with it. The HAAC doesn't believe Scott Spinner is qualified to lead LU-B at this time, and they also felt like he had virtually no oversite from St., Charles.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:19 pm 
Offline
NAIA MVP

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1108
LUFan2 wrote:
What surprises me is that it was a 10 - 0 vote. You'd think they would have gotten a couple votes unless something wasn't right.

Personally, I think it was more of a worry that LU-B will become what LU-St. Charles was/is now. Athletically speaking. With all the talk about LU-STC moving to D1 FCS in the future (distant future if it happens), I believe they think LU-B could make the move to DII and leave them looking for another replacement. I'm also sure the Missouri Baptist interest had a bit to do with it as well. They would make more sense for the HAAC IMO.


I said the same thing months ago..others thought it was a forgone conclusion they would be welcome with open arms..

No way was the HAAC going to let that happen..once was enough.

Athletics drives enrollment for a lot of the HAAC schools and being on an uneven playing field isn't in the best interest of those schools...LU or LU-B have no business being in this conference.

_________________
"If Blue Eyes can kick the ball 10-yards you think one of you bastards can fall on it.."

Paul "Wrecking" Crewe


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:50 pm 
Offline
NAIA Legend

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:27 am
Posts: 4066
Why invite a school in if they are just going to leave the conference in a few years? Maybe that had something to do with it.

_________________
BASKETBALL: 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 HAAC Pick Em' Champ! 2009 NAIA DI National Pick Em' Champ!

Fear the Neer'!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lindenwood-Belleville Rejected
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:09 pm 
Offline
NAIA MVP
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 937
SeattleSaint wrote:
Why invite a school in if they are just going to leave the conference in a few years? Maybe that had something to do with it.

I don't see Belleville moving up anytime soon.

_________________
GO LIONS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  



Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
Template made by TBF Photoshop Forum
Victory Sports Network - PO BOX 5384 - Grand Island, NE 68802 - 308 383-1431 - mail@victorysportsnetwork.com