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 Post subject: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:03 pm 
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No surprises here really, but at least it's something to generate perhaps a bit more conversation in here.

http://www.naia.org/ViewArticle.dbml?DB ... =207230663

1 1 Marian (Ind.) (10) 12-1
2 2 Morningside (Iowa) (3) 13-1
3 3 Missouri Valley 12-1
4 4 Saint Xavier (Ill.) 11-2
5 5 Southern Oregon 9-3
6 6 Saint Francis (Ind.) 9-3
7 7 Cumberlands (Ky.) 10-2
8 8 Georgetown (Ky.) 10-1
9 9 Bethel (Tenn.) 9-4
10 10 St. Ambrose (Iowa) 9-2
11 T12 Montana Tech 8-3
12 11 MidAmerica Nazarene (Kan.) 8-3
13 T12 Northwestern (Iowa) 9-3
14 14 Baker (Kan.) 8-3
15 15 William Penn (Iowa) 9-3
16 16 Ottawa (Kan.) 8-3
17 17 Grand View (Iowa) 8-3
18 21 Carroll (Mont.) 7-4
19 18 Tabor (Kan.) 8-2
20 19 Cumberland (Tenn.) 8-3
21 20 Doane (Neb.) 7-3
22 22 Benedictine (Kan.) 7-4
23 23 Evangel (Mo.) 7-4
24 24 Valley City State (N.D.) 7-3
25 RV Robert Morris (Ill.) 9-3
Others receiving votes: Kentucky Christian 10; Bacone (Okla.) 8; Faulkner (Ala.) 4; Friends (Kan.) 4; Nebraska Wesleyan 3.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:25 pm 
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What the hell..I'll bite.

Who in their right mind would rank Carroll 18th..ranked behind Ottawa for crissake..?

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Haacaway wrote:
What the hell..I'll bite.

Who in their right mind would rank Carroll 18th..ranked behind Ottawa for crissake..?



The same people whom automatically rank Marian #1 despite losing 12 starters and most of their coaching staff. However, thats Carroll behind any KCAC team is beyond silly.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:23 am 
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Ok, once again..I have no dog in the fight....so some quick observations. (small comments within the rankings themselves here)

Per typical, this isn't so much a polling as it is the order of finish last season. While some teams should get respect for proving to be a top program on a very consistent basis, others will fall from their high finishes last year. Personally I think the top 25 should be a combo of program success and who/what is returning, etc.

With Marian, MSide, and SXU all losing some of the top players at the NAIA level (QBs, etc), and with Marian losing their Coaching staff from a championship team....I'm not expecting them to look like a #1 team, but instead more like a top 10 kinda team (which is 2 different things).

With the air seemingly coming out of the Carroll balloon last year, and without programs like USF and Lindenwood around at the top of the rankings anymore, it would seem that the top few spots in the NAIA world last year and this coming year will be up for grabs a bit..with a fair amount of change during the year....similar to NCAA D1 basketball....but without quite that many #1's during the year.


BSN Gibbs wrote:
No surprises here really, but at least it's something to generate perhaps a bit more conversation in here.

http://www.naia.org/ViewArticle.dbml?DB ... =207230663

1 1 Marian (Ind.) (10) 12-1 (too high, losing a lot of the program/team)
2 2 Morningside (Iowa) (3) 13-1 (Nixon & Hendo huge loss..much remains tho)
3 3 Missouri Valley 12-1 (about right, plenty remains I think)
4 4 Saint Xavier (Ill.) 11-2 (Coy loss is huge, but SXU is a factory..top NAIA?)
5 5 Southern Oregon 9-3 (Bringing back a lot, but Frontier is STRONG)
6 6 Saint Francis (Ind.) 9-3 (Fantastic program, MSide to Coo in past)
7 7 Cumberlands (Ky.) 10-2 (Cobb gone? Me forgets. Coach left right?)
8 8 Georgetown (Ky.) 10-1 (What happ to this team? I expect them top 3-4)
9 9 Bethel (Tenn.) 9-4 (need more info)
10 10 St. Ambrose (Iowa) 9-2 (need more info)
11 T12 Montana Tech 8-3 (Coach Morrell brings back a alot, see SOU)
12 11 MidAmerica Nazarene (Kan.) 8-3 (Ransburg era over, good program tho)
13 T12 Northwestern (Iowa) 9-3 (lose a stud RB, got another one in making..)
14 14 Baker (Kan.) 8-3 (need more info)
15 15 William Penn (Iowa) 9-3 (need more info)
16 16 Ottawa (Kan.) 8-3 (likely still the class of the KCAC)
17 17 Grand View (Iowa) 8-3 (have become a consistent top 15 kinda team)
18 21 Carroll (Mont.) 7-4 (18? come on. Frontier TOUGH, CC back to top?)
19 18 Tabor (Kan.) 8-2
20 19 Cumberland (Tenn.) 8-3
21 20 Doane (Neb.) 7-3
22 22 Benedictine (Kan.) 7-4
23 23 Evangel (Mo.) 7-4
24 24 Valley City State (N.D.) 7-3
25 RV Robert Morris (Ill.) 9-3
Others receiving votes: Kentucky Christian 10; Bacone (Okla.) 8; Faulkner (Ala.) 4; Friends (Kan.) 4; Nebraska Wesleyan 3.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:34 am 
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Cobb is going to his final year at Cumberlands. And I have to agree with you about Georgetown: talented team that can't seem to make it over the hump. Perhaps the year of the running back in the NAIA? Cobb, Lake, Bartman, Gates, Pesek, and Hansen


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:27 pm 
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Witt wrote:
Per typical, this isn't so much a polling as it is the order of finish last season. While some teams should get respect for proving to be a top program on a very consistent basis, others will fall from their high finishes last year. Personally I think the top 25 should be a combo of program success and who/what is returning, etc.


Obviously, the coaches put zero thought into this. Every team faces starters returning/lost, depth issues, recruits and transfers, along with coaching staff changes, which HAS to have an impact on expectations. Other than the sage input from the veterans of this board, is there a reliable source to find that info on the top teams?

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:25 am 
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The rankings don't mean much. Wait for the season and see what happens. CC at #18? So what? Some folks are just getting their jabs in. That's the way it is. This will make for some good motivational material.
Expect a top 4 finish for Carroll this year. I've got them figured as the favorites. :D
SOU won't be quite so high flying, but might also make the playoffs. Tech is starting to rebuild a solid football base.
Morningside and MVC should be in the hunt. How about Sant Ambrose? Couple of schools in the south are going to make a run this season.
The predicted power shift has occured. The MSFA is a very deep league and will be well represented, both East and West. The Frontier has shown that it is no longer a one team conference. The top three could play with any team in the NAIA. Not bad for an 8 team conference. Funny what an opportunity will do for you.
What's going on in the HAAC this year? A few programs seem to be ready to make some noise, but is Marshall the seat of power?


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:56 am 
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Quote:
Expect a top 4 finish for Carroll this year. I've got them figured as the favorites.


I said the same thing 2 days ago:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69087

No way a Mike VanDeist team is irrevelant for a second year. Additionally, Ottawa will not be in the poll after week 2 as well....

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:57 am 
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The past two seasons have brought out maybe the best playoffs in quite a while. W/O USF looming over the GPAC and Carroll not dominating the Frontier (as much as before), we've gotten a chance to see quality ball played by several relative newcomers - SOU had not been relevant for almost 10 years, MT Tech about the same and Marian was a totally new dog in the fight a couple years ago.

Northwestern played well in return and St Franny has always been lurking for a title. St X will always be a top 5 or better program as long as Feminis is there. MoVal & MNU should be included in the discussion too. And yes, Morningside too in case you thought I forgot

My biggest question is - If Georgetown hadn't lost last second to Bethel, would the Tigers have been able to get to Rome? Is there something about the MSC that is over rated a bit? Good teams, but not Top 5 or 6 on a national scale?

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:21 pm 
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good post from HALO.......I see Carroll as a top 10 team and will b tough. But HALO knows where im going with this I believe MT Tech will be a force to be reasoned with this year. They return a very good and well rounded defense with a very tough and talented DLine and LBs under Head Coach Chucky and even though they lost their QB their backup is still solid with a very good recieving corps around him as well as potential all american RB Hansen. I still expect the Tech - Carroll battle in Helena to be very exciting. The Frontier should put 3 teams in Tech Carroll and SOU in the playoffs this next year and will be a tough conference overall

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Imo, defensive line is the most important position in football. If you have a great dline and are solid every where else, you can win championships, regardless of the level. Missouri Valley is solid everywhere, but has dudes whom literally has NFL talent on their Dline. I dont think anyone plays within 30 points of Valley this year. They will have the best defense the NAIA has seen since Sioux falls in '09.

Ty Phillips is the most talented and dominant player in the NAIA and it isn't close. If he were at Mizzou, he would push for All SEC accolades.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Not so fast Perdition King...

Valley has a lot of holes to fill from last season..Oline, their top reciever hurt in spring practice may not play this fall, etc..

"30-points better" whoa their boy..whoa.

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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 7:53 am 
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NFL talent?? OK, Presumtionqueen. I can't wait to see them on Sundays.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 8:41 am 
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RedOrDead wrote:
NFL talent?? OK, Presumtionqueen. I can't wait to see them on Sundays.



Ty Phillips will be playing on Sundays. He had 18 sacks and 31 tackles for loss last season. He's a 6'3 250 DE, runs a 4.6.

I'm not presuming anything. He's the most dominant defensive player to come out of the NAIA in Lynn Scott at NWOSU whom spent a few years with the Dallas Cowboys.

Tripp Thomas is also a tremendous rush end, and actually playing out of position. He's faster than Ty Phillips and will get a chance as a OLB edge rusher at the next level in a 3-4 scheme.

They also have a D-tackle named Leon Jackson, who is NOT an NFL prospect, but at 6'2 285, he would start every NAIA team in the country.


I have no desire to prop up Missouri Valley. I would prefer for them to lose every game, but the proof is on that roster. They are loaded along that D-line.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:19 am 
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predictionking wrote:
RedOrDead wrote:
NFL talent?? OK, Presumtionqueen. I can't wait to see them on Sundays.



Ty Phillips will be playing on Sundays. He had 18 sacks and 31 tackles for loss last season. He's a 6'3 250 DE, runs a 4.6.

I'm not presuming anything. He's the most dominant defensive player to come out of the NAIA in Lynn Scott at NWOSU whom spent a few years with the Dallas Cowboys.

Tripp Thomas is also a tremendous rush end, and actually playing out of position. He's faster than Ty Phillips and will get a chance as a OLB edge rusher at the next level in a 3-4 scheme.

They also have a D-tackle named Leon Jackson, who is NOT an NFL prospect, but at 6'2 285, he would start every NAIA team in the country.


I have no desire to prop up Missouri Valley. I would prefer for them to lose every game, but the proof is on that roster. They are loaded along that D-line.


Not taking any sides here, BUT if these guys are that good and true Sunday players why aren't they playing D1 ball somewhere? My kid starts playing NAIA ball this fall and the talent level I've seen in the NAIA is much better than many think it is, however the NAIA hasn't graduated to the level of NFL draft stock, at least not yet...doesn't mean a few camp invites won't come out of the NAIA but that's an up hill battle against guys that have been playing in the SEC, PAC 12, etc. Wish all the players the best of luck but, like others have pointed out, those kind of NFL predictions are a bit optimistic.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 1:24 pm 
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Just_A_Fan wrote:
Not taking any sides here, BUT if these guys are that good and true Sunday players why aren't they playing D1 ball somewhere?



I would encourage you to do some reading on Ty Phillips. He didn't even make it onto campus at Mizzou because of eligibility issues, however he was a legit prospect for the Tigers and would have been on roster had he made the grades. After attending a prep school he got picked up by Cincinnati the following year and red-shirted for the Bearcats. This is where it gets fuzzy on exactly why he is not in Division I anymore, but it had nothing to do with lack of talent. There are hundreds of cases like this in the NAIA where D1 kids fall to the NAIA because of grades or other issues. And they can make it to the NFL if they're in the right situation. Just because they're not in D1 right now doesn't mean they aren't D1 players.

Ty Phillips is going to have an uphill battle, but can he play on Sundays? Absolutely.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 1:38 pm 
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freekydeekydutch wrote:
Ty Phillips is going to have an uphill battle, but can he play on Sundays? Absolutely.

Absolutely? Really?? OK.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 1:47 pm 
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Phillips signed with the University of Missouri back in 2010. He had offers from Mizzou, Illinois, and at one time had offers from Nebraska, Iowa, K-State, Wisconsin, and Michigan State. Coaches from the Big 10, Big 12, and SEC all made frequent stops to see Phillips at East St. Lou High. When the "writing was on the wall" regarding his academic problems, the likes of Nebraska, K-State, Iowa, and Michigan State all bailed on him.

Illinois wanted to place him at a JUCO in Illinois and see if they could get him in for the 2012 or '13 seasons. Mizzou stayed with him until the last minute and signed him. He still struggled academically at the Prep School, and they backed off.

Phillips would've been at Lindenwood had they still been in the NAIA. He is exactly the type of dude they got 5 or 6 times per year over the last few years in the NAIA.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 1:59 pm 
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RedOrDead wrote:
freekydeekydutch wrote:
Ty Phillips is going to have an uphill battle, but can he play on Sundays? Absolutely.

Absolutely? Really?? OK.



I've seen a lot of terrific NAIA defensive ends over the years. I've seen 7 1st team All-Americans that I can remember since 2000. Missouri Valley alone, has produced 2 all-american DE's over the last 6 years in Larry Wentzel and Richard Wick. St. Xavier's National Title team had an All-American DE named Michael Prosser whom was so dominant in their 2011 playoff run, that without him, I'm not sure they even win more than one playoff game that year.

Ty Phillips makes all of those dudes look like smaller, weaker, and slower. He's a special football player that you never get the pleasure to watch in the NAIA.


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 Post subject: Re: 2013 Spring Top 25 Poll
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:01 pm 
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predictionking wrote:
RedOrDead wrote:
NFL talent?? OK, Presumtionqueen. I can't wait to see them on Sundays.



Ty Phillips will be playing on Sundays. He had 18 sacks and 31 tackles for loss last season. He's a 6'3 250 DE, runs a 4.6.

I'm not presuming anything. He's the most dominant defensive player to come out of the NAIA in Lynn Scott at NWOSU whom spent a few years with the Dallas Cowboys.

Tripp Thomas is also a tremendous rush end, and actually playing out of position. He's faster than Ty Phillips and will get a chance as a OLB edge rusher at the next level in a 3-4 scheme.

They also have a D-tackle named Leon Jackson, who is NOT an NFL prospect, but at 6'2 285, he would start every NAIA team in the country.


I have no desire to prop up Missouri Valley. I would prefer for them to lose every game, but the proof is on that roster. They are loaded along that D-line.


Unless my sources are wrong Thomas is out of eligibility..

Jackson is one big dude who really came on late last season and if Phillips wasn't a focal point Jackson very well could be...They also have an incoming freshman that was recruited right under Evangel's nose who at least in video looks to be the heir apparent to a long list of great DE's at Valley..long lanky kid that already goes about 230-plus pounds..give him a year in the weight room as a RS and he should come out ready to go around 250-lbs..

I don't know about Phillips being necessarily better than Wentzel..Wentzel for this level was a freak..his junior year numbers were off the charts considering the platoon system DC Monte Roe likes to employ..Wentzel had an early season ankle injury that never was 100-percent his senior season plus the fact he was double-teamed and/or chipped by a running back on nearly every snap and Phillips will see the same attention this season.

Someone mentioned in this thread or another one the running back situation with this Malakai Jones kid coming in as a RS freshman from Branson..being ordained the power back replacing LaNorris Dukes who has moved on..Dukes had his moments but if Jones had been ready at the same time Dukes may have never seen the field except in blowouts. Jones is more than a "power straight ahead runner"..he can make people miss and if he doesn't he can run them over..A lot of nice backs and just one football..I'd like to see that competition for carries when fall practice starts with pads..

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